Comments: Doctor Who: Toclafane & Series 3 Finale

Yes Dalek_God is here to assist.

The Tolcafane are indeed new monsters, I have heard that the Judoon come back looking for an Alien race new to planet Earth. Its not the Master they are looking for so I have reason to believe its the Tolcafane. I have also heard roumers of the Rani returning played by Zoe Lucker, then here comes the next shockwave........
In 2008 a second Doctor Who movie is confirmed to be released. Bliie Piper aka Rose will meet the Doctor one last time as the Daleks, Cybermen and a whole range of old friends and enemies return.

Posted by Dalek_God at April 19, 2007 6:24 PM

He is....wait for it......THE MASTER!!!! Yes you guessed right but I am confused of how Mr.Saxon can be the Master but the Professor at the same time. The Doctor and the Master do have a climactic battle on the top of a moutainside and I wonder if we'll see the Master's TARDIS aswell. We'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by Dalek_God at April 19, 2007 6:31 PM

It would be possible for The Master to also be The Professor, as don't forget, Time Lords regenerate into different bodies. As proved with the regeneration from Doctor to Doctor. Also, the title of The Professor could be a false name. A clue for you:

Look at the name MISTER SAXON. Is this also not a clever anagram to hide The Master's identity?

"I will utter one more secret.........."

Posted by The_Face_Of_Boe at April 25, 2007 7:56 PM

An anagram of Mister Saxon's name is Master no.6
Possibly meaning we would see him in his 6th regeneration.

Posted by Hacker at May 7, 2007 9:16 AM

All the three "mysteries" of the end of the series; the Toclafane, the power of the archangel and the heart of the valiant appear to be religious in connotation.

The heart of the valiant is referred to twice in Judeo-Christian texts, both in prophecies. When just 'The Archangel' is used, it tends to refer to the Archangel Michael who had the power to summon the armies of God and Toclafane may be a latin-greek bastardisation to refer to the offspring of a temple.

If this is fitted in with the theme of the lonely god as the Doctor, then this would imply Mr Saxon as some sort of anti-Doctor, which would fit in with the Master, fighting for control of all creation or ultimate power.

Posted by hammard at May 8, 2007 12:39 PM

The Master wouldn't be in his 6th Regeneration, it is just stating that its the sixth actor to play the Master. The Tolcafane are new monsters whom are connected to the power of the Archangel and the secrets at the herat of the Valiant is Timelord writing. The Judoon return in the las two episodes aswell as Dalek Caan.

Posted by Dalek_God at May 13, 2007 2:45 PM

is it not possible that this could be a previous reincarnation of the Master?

I have long believed that "The Master" in The Mind Robber was THE Master, Then Roger Delgado, Then the "Deadly Assasain / Keeper of Traken Master (who was the last). Correct me if i'm wrong but The Anthony Ainley /Eric Roberts Masters Did not regenerate but took over the bodies of his victims. It is fair to say that this could be another "Possession" but at the same time, there must be another 10 masters in history. Could it possibly be an earlier reincarnation

I don't do forums very often, but questions posed like the ones above are the main reason why I love DR WHO.

I'm not trying to make a point, but would certainly like anybody elses opinion. My head hurts sometimes thinking about it and trying to explain this to my missus is a no no!

Posted by peetaypan at May 18, 2007 10:34 AM

Movie with Rose in it. mot likely
Season 4 and Xmas specials to do.Russel T Davies wouldn't churn out a movie sfter only 3 years so far,
its more likely Tom Baker will get to make DR WHO MEETS SCRATCHMAN

Dr who is a TV programme
The Red dwarf movie has slumped into Development Hell
I would love to see a DR WHO movie but I like my sat eves sat at home with DR WHO

Judoon retoon sounds great!

One question if the Professer is the master?

Will we see Derek Jcobi regenerate into John Simm?
How did he survive the Time War?

Posted by drwho o1977 at May 19, 2007 9:09 PM

he wasnt in the time war becos he didnt want to help the timelords and the time war was between the 8th doc and 9th doc which means that he couldnt have been in it becos if u rememba the masta died in the 8th movie:P

Posted by raz at May 21, 2007 12:23 PM

Hate To point this out but Your MASTER NO.6 Theory is wrong there have been 6 actors already to play the master:-
1/Roger Delgado
2/Peter Pratt
3/Geoffrey Beevers
4/Anthony Ainley
5/Gordon Tipple
6/Eric Roberts
And besides if you watch the movie the whole thing is the master trying to steal the doctors remaining lives as he has used all but one of his lives then he gets knocked into the eye of harmony and died for the final time.

Posted by Gj at June 1, 2007 8:43 PM

is the master in the last cople of episode because i can't wait. i also can't wait untill this saturday because of blink it looks so scary

chou for now write back

Posted by sycoraxmax at June 7, 2007 12:52 PM

yes i watched the ep where the master falls in the eye of harmony i think its wicked i i justed a sneak peek at upotia and jack is back jumps onto the tardis while its being takeing off......really good

plus the master is gonna be well good cant wait to fidn out wat happens i hope he dose sometihnk more better this time lol i think that he sud steal tardis and just die like he did in eye of harmony mmmm say get traped into hell....or the time stream........i never knew that judoon wud comed back i tihnk ya lieing there but remains to be seen and i want daleks back there fun to watch
i dont no wat this weeks ep is about its blink moveing statues or somethink then sound of drums .....? dont have clue what that is
next one is master or the sound of drums is when the master just comes in it
mmmmm and i wish there ep showing the time war
be fun i might search dont think there any ep k.e is good and i love the santas at crimbo doctor.who is chucked full or fun entertainment .....:) 2 days till next one reply to me if i have said anythink wrong about the eps ^^ or i corret u!" -.-

Posted by liam at June 7, 2007 9:11 PM

About the doctor being wrong about Harriet jones. She was an important figure in the alt dimension. So maybe some how this doctor is in the wrong dimension. All is knowledge of the time line is for the alt and not for the one he is involved in.

Posted by at June 8, 2007 2:59 AM

My theory is that Mr. Saxon is the master,
So many people across the internet have thought this and yet the BBC don't seem to mention it in

Posted by evil duck at June 9, 2007 11:08 AM

The Doctor "knows" things about history (Harriet Jones) but he can also change them. It was the 10th Doctor who didn't like how she dealt with the Sycorax and thus uttered the "6 words" that would be her downfall, at the end of the first Christmas special.

The Doctor changed history, by his own judgement. Shows how much The Doctor has changed - the Fourth refused to wipe out the Daleks despite all he knew they would do; the Tenth was happy to ruin a woman's career despite all the good he knew she would do ("England's second golden age" or some such).

Posted by Adam Piontek at June 9, 2007 3:08 PM

if you recall back to the previous series you might recall the doctor commented to rose that he had a son once, i believe he had this child with a human and that this child is saxon and that he wants the doctor purely for his tardis as you know mister harold saxon is an anagram of timelord has a son !

Posted by the overlord at June 11, 2007 2:53 PM

this is a good theory are the rumour of his son appearence in the finale were said: he needs someone to take over as doctor doesn't have that many generations left

Posted by inside info at June 12, 2007 4:37 PM

what happens to the x in saxon then?

Posted by Tom at June 12, 2007 6:34 PM

could it possibly for the roman numeral 10 - therefore it would be Tenth timelord has a son.
the tenth timelord obviously being david tennant

Posted by Tom at June 12, 2007 6:38 PM

Actually the Doctor said that he was a father and a grandfather once. Which is implied by the fact that the First Doctor traveled with his Granddaughter. Unless the books are true and Susan was the Other's granddaughter who was just found by the Doctor/Other.

As for the sixth Master thing, some people don't consider Gordon Tipple to have actually portrayed the Master due to the fact it was about five seconds of him being exterminated. As for the regeneration thing it is believed by quite a few that The Meddling Monk, the Warlord, and any other Time Lord who showed up to face the Doctor prior to 3rd Doctor was in fact the Master in his last few regenerations before becoming the Delgado Master which was his last life. Just before he died he became the Master we saw in Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken before obviously taking the powers of the Keeper to possess Tremas and essentially restart his 13th life. Afterwards we saw him exterminated, turned into the snake thing (cant remember it's name), and becoming the Eric Roberts Master who was trapped in the Eye of Harmony.

If you count any of the novels as canon then in the Eighth Doctor Novel "The Gallifrey Chronicles" he was still alive in some form (and more powerful) within the Eye of Harmony. With the Eye supposedly destroyed with Gallifrey it is easy to assume he could have escaped with enough power left over to give himself at least a few new regenerations.

Haven't heard anything about Judoon and Dalek Caan returning but would be neat. I would love to see a new Doctor Who movie because I loved the 8th Doctor one, (I had heard a rumor that if they did another movie it would be about the Time War but I think RTD said he wasn't going to do that even though it would be cool).

Ok that's my tirade, later all :D

Posted by Sutekh at June 12, 2007 10:00 PM

wikipedia confirms simms is the master and the detaisl of the last 2 epsiodes

Posted by qwerty at June 15, 2007 1:30 PM

1. The Master didn't die in the Enemy Within movie he was just sucked into the Eye of Harmony. When Rose opened up the Time Vortex in the Parting of the Ways she absorbed the Master. The Doctor then inherited the Time Vortex and in the Christmas Invasion he was breathing out parts of the Master so he then found a new body.
2. The Doctor's son died during the Time War as confirmed by the casting Directors.
3. Wikipedia hasn't confirmed Mr. Saxon is the Master only speculated he is the Master. However it is true he returns as Russel let slip a scriptphrase: Earth has been conquered and the Master rules supreme, with the Doctor a helpless prisoner, in the final episode of Russell T Davies’s Doctor Who.

The entire human race has been reduced to slavery, as the mighty warships of a new Time Lord Empire rise from the ashes. Only Martha Jones can save the world…

4. The audio adventures and books are tied in with the series. For example, Dalek Caan says to Mr. Diagoras that Skaro was destroyed in a great war, however Skaro was destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks. The Doctor destroyed the wrong planet in RotD.
5. Filming for the last two episodes people have seen a damaged Dalek Caan and the Judoon leader.
6. The Doctor Who show can't go on for ever but I feel that in Rise of the Cybermen the Doctor gives away 10 years of his life which takes away 1 Regeneration. He would then be in his 9th incarnation.
7. I hope we get to see the Master's TARDIS this time.
8. The Tolcafane are Time Lord warriors, an ancient race created by Omega so they should be good to see.

Posted by Dalek_God at June 16, 2007 5:17 PM

Here I have summed up everything (I think) that has been revealed about the final two episodes of Series 3 so far. Don't read on if you don't want to find all these spoilers. It's rather long as well, so prepare to be bored.

• There is a new alien race known as the Toclafane, who have spherical shaped ships which appear to have a large upside-down ‘T’ embellished on the front. They also appear to be friends with Mr. Saxon.
• There is a villain called Miss. Dexter, who was seen with Martha’s mother recording the phone calls between Martha and her mother during the events of 42, and was rumoured to be the Rani in disguise. She then tries to kill Martha’s family.
• There will be some sort of power, known as Archangel.
• There will be something known as ‘The Valiant’, which stores a great secret.
• There is a character called Tom Milligan, (?) who is helping Martha Jones.
• John Simm will be playing the newly elected Prime Minister, Mr. Saxon, who is the Master in disguise.
• At some point over the two episodes, Mr. Saxon and the Doctor will have a fight on a hill or a mountainside.
• Martha’s family will play a large role,
• The episodes take place shortly after the events of 42, from the point of view of Martha’s mother: during 42, she says it is ‘Election Day’.
• ‘The Professor’, from the preceding episode, Utopia, changes into one of the Doctor’s enemies at the end of the episode.
• A trap started in The Lazarus Experiment will be closed in the last two episodes. The reason Mr. Saxon was funding Professor Lazarus may also be revealed (see the conversation between Professor Lazarus and Lady Thaw after the opening titles of The Lazarus Experiment). It is obvious Mr. Saxon has connections with Lazarus Labs – if you watch the trailer that appeared after The Lazarus Experiment closely, you will see Saxon is wearing a ring with the Laz Labs logo on.
• Mr. Saxon assassinates the entire cabinet, in a rebuilt 10 Downing Street (presumably it is 10 Downing Street).
• UNIT is involved again, when the US President hands command of the "operation" over to them.
• Mr. Saxon builds a new Timelord empire on Earth. He also manages to capture the Doctor.
• The name of the Professor in Utopia is Yana. The initials of the Face of Boe’s final message (You are not alone) also spell Yana. Was the Face of Boe trying to warn the Doctor?
• The true identity of the Face of Boe will be revealed in the final episode, suggesting that he somehow survived dying in the year 5 billion and 53. Either that or this is a version of Boe before the events in the 5 billion year period.
• Mr. Saxon's plan spans all of time and space.

Here I have also compiled some of the more amazing rumours about the final two episodes, as well as a few of my thoughts:
• Dalek Caan and the Judoon are rumoured to return, but this has yet to be confirmed or quashed by the BBC, although all the current evidence would suggest that this is incorrect.
• 'Mister Harold Saxon' does not become 'Timelord has a son' or 'Tenth Timelord has a son'. Sorry to disappoint you, overlord.
• Near the end of Utopia, it is revealed that the Master’s drop-off point was the edge of the Silver Devastation, the home of the Face of Boe. This is possibly how the Face of Boe found out about this second Timelord.
• The Doctor, being a wiz with technology might use the timey-wimey bouncey thing that Jack had to whip Martha, the Doctor and Jack back to the present day.
• When the Doctor converted to human, he used the TARDIS to fit him in with a new lifestyle. Presumably the Master must have used his TARDIS in the same way, meaning (possibly) that his is still somewhere out there.
• Following on from the previous point, the Doctor's TARDIS was around Earth when it fit him in. At least, I assume this based on the fact that the Family of Blood attacked them in 2007, which would only have been relevant if it was Earth. So, is the Master's TARDIS lurking around the Silver Devastation?
• More Silver Devastation Stuff - if the Face of Boe turns up again in the final episode (as mentioned above), does this mean he will be dragging the Master's TARDIS along with him? Is that why he has survived so long?
• Presumably, the Master fled the Timewar using the Chameleon Arch since he was always against the main cause of the Timelords.

Finally, a few questions that need answering (most totally unrelated, but connected to the final three episodes):
• Why (if the trailer gives the right impression) is Mr. Saxon murdering the entire cabinet with gas? The Master's in the classic series had hypnotic powers, why not this time round?
• In Utopia, we see the Doctor looking at the TARDIS scanner. This means that, presumably, the TARDIS is constantly watching everything around it. And since the TARDIS is "organic", surely this means the Weeping Angels should have been unable to move in it's presence during Blink.
• When the Doctor (in human form, as John Smith) held the watch that his personality was stored in, especially towards the end of the episode, some of his Timelord personality reasserted itself. Why does this not happen with Professor Yana? Has he developed some sort of immunity to the effects?

And finally, finally, here is my one huge question:
• Does anyone else think that the Master may have actually helped the Daleks win the Timewar? Since Gallifrey was supposedly removed from time, how would the Daleks have found it without the help of another Timelord. Also - the Daleks have had dealing with the Master, and would presumably want to exterminate him in front of the Emperor as a punishment for f*****g up on those occasions. This would be an easy way for the Master to escape, bargaining with the Daleks, even though they would probably exterminate him anyway. Alternatively, he may just have legged it like a coward.

Posted by clawanhex at June 16, 2007 9:23 PM

Toclafane is an anagram for "A Conflate" which means "To bring together; meld or fuse" according to

perhaps somehting to do with the master taking the Doctors hand, and a planet full of utopian humans and melding or fusing them? (new race of timelords anyone?)

Posted by Ashtron at June 17, 2007 3:07 PM

hiya Im new ere!! it ses on wikipedia that a new timelord empire will rise and with the doctor as a helpless prizoner it is up to martha jones to save the world, that is for the sound of drums or for the last of the timelords cant remember!!
in utopia the professor regenerates into jon simm (mr saxon) who then steals the doctors tardis and going back to earth 2007. leaving the doctor , martha and jack stranded at the end of the universe with the future kind!!!!!
if u have any questions for me plz ask me
tha doctor andres
p..s hope this helped!!!!

Posted by the doctor andrew at June 17, 2007 5:54 PM

Yeah wazzup, f'reel innit.

Posted by at June 18, 2007 2:59 PM

Updating the news:

1.Miss Dexter could well be the Rani in disguise who then regenerates(simularly to the master at the end of Utopia), into the from of actress Zoe Lucker(as already speculated).

2.The Judoon arrive on Earth searching for the Toclafane.

3.Dalek Caan's emergency teleportation systems bring him to the present day where the master rules supreme- with the toclafane and the judoon.

4.Afer proving his invinsibility-perhaps Captain Jack is the doctor's son; being able to live for such a long time.

5.Perhaps the toclafane could be somehow related to another classic villain-such as the ice-warriors', or the sontarans?

Posted by woody at June 18, 2007 4:52 PM


Posted by adam wilkins at June 18, 2007 4:58 PM

the master will obvo rebuild the time lord race using the utopians haha this is so explanatory

Posted by torres at June 18, 2007 11:44 PM

this is not exactly on topic (sorry) but i was thinking about Jack and his story. he says he had to live all the way through the 20th why didn't he age?! i know that he can't die but we haven't been told that he can't age, or is the explanation for this that he is a 'fixed point in time' like the doctor said. any thoughts?

Posted by at June 19, 2007 12:17 AM

Could it be that the Face of Boe gave Professor Yana his name and had something to do with his upbringing while human? This would explain how he was able to warn the Doctor in exactly the manner he did.

Posted by sparky at June 19, 2007 5:31 PM

What to do with the remaining 'R' and 'X'?


('RX' relating to prescriptions, thus pharmacist, hence Doctor)

Posted by Adric   at June 20, 2007 5:32 PM

hi, i just want to say that dalek cann WILL NOT be returing this series.
my guesse is the doctor will help martha and jack to block out the future kind. then jack tells the doctor they have only got a limited amout of time in the lab before the future kind break through.
the doctor then relises that the master traveled around the galakey. so he must have used his TARDIS!!!!! the doctor will find the master's tardis and escape with martha and jack just as the future kind are breaking through the door.
the doctor will then go to election day and stop for the meal with martha's mum. then mr. saxon makes his war. possibly judoon come back. cant be certain.
e-mail me your views at

Posted by dr. who god who knows all at June 20, 2007 6:38 PM


I've heard rumours that mr saxon saved the cyber controller (john lumic) and together create a race of modified cybermen they call the toclafane. I am unsure as to the truth of this but i long to see one thing on doctor who...CYBERDALEKS!

Posted by Doc Who? at June 21, 2007 4:45 PM

Just as an aside, toclafane is also an anagram of talon face

Posted by who fan at June 21, 2007 10:24 PM

i think maybe that the face of boe was kind to the master and turned him human using the fob watch and left him at the end of the universe to live out the rest of his life and die as a human. sort of like the weeping angels.
alternatively the master was trying to avoid the time war or those sniffy people whatever they were called or the judoon or someone so turned human using the fob watch and was found by the face of boe or something. i don't actually know but i reckon it is pretty basic as in...professor at end of universe, opens fob watch, becomes master, regenerates into Mister harold saxon (i love those anagram games), steals TARDIS, goes to "past", works way through politics to become prime minister, then doctor needs to get back somehow though and thats all i know. if the professor was found on the edge of the silver devastation as a child then he would have lived his whol life as a human and being human wouldn't have noticed his TARDIS, namely, it's still there. the doctor either needs to use jacks "space hopper" to get to the tardis or to go to the "past". it's gonna be good though, can't wait. i wonder how many rumours are true?

Posted by alfusraccoon at June 22, 2007 11:55 AM

brill - i just LOVE all this speculation!

Posted by cs at June 23, 2007 1:04 AM

King Harold Godwinson was the last crowned Anglo-Saxon king of England...

Posted by ailsacraig at June 23, 2007 11:27 AM

"when two worlds collide... anything can happen"

what does this mean to you?

Posted by insideinfo aka 'audas5196' at June 23, 2007 2:19 PM

The Toclafane are the weird things seen on the trailer at the end of utopia.Maybe the master turned himself into a human to escape the judoon but now he's THE MASTER again they'll find him(rather like florence finnigan became human to hide from them)and the doctor will either find the masters tardis or use the sonic screwdriver on Jack's vortex manipulator and go kick Mr Saxons Butt.If Dalek Caan Returns He will probably be on the masters side but turn on him..

-PS-As The Masters Tardis Has A Functioning chameleon circuit maybe its like a ford escort or summin LOl

Posted by Tom at June 23, 2007 2:23 PM

John Barrowman said in an interview a few weeks ago that he had just finnished filming a scene for Dr Who whenone of the crews son came screeming to him and asking him to protect him from a Cyberman who was on set! They are back me thinks!

Posted by deamack at June 23, 2007 4:01 PM


Doctor who fans we rock \m/

The master rules
hes insane but fun :)

My Email

Posted by Ciaran :) at June 23, 2007 8:35 PM

its obviuos the master was ressurected by the time lords during the war and to escape it he turned himself human

Posted by hayden at June 24, 2007 12:26 PM

the doctor needs the masters laser screwdriver- he cant do anything being an old man like that! he needs to reverse the effects, and get back to what is now a paradox machine- the opposite of a time machine, and reverse its effects. but will he do that- i realy want to know how the story ends!

Posted by lunus solarius at June 24, 2007 12:27 PM

Hi all. After watching "The sound of drums" last night i have my own theories based around the Toclafane.

1. Somehow i do not believe that there is an anagram to do with the name Toclafane although i applaud people's versions of the name. This is because the doctor simply says that it is a name from fairytales and therefore i don't believe has any significance.

2. There are 3 factors we need to consider when calculating the true identity of the toclafane. These are the TARDIS being converted into a paradox machine, the last episode being named "Last of the time lords" and upon asking the Master who the Toclafane were, his reply was simply "My dear doctor, if i told you that it would break both your hearts".

With that out of the way lets look at those factors in further detail.

1. the name of the final episode "Last of the time lords" could be a clue as to the Toclafane being the souls or the entities of time lords encased within their spherical forms. I believe this is also backed up by the fact that if the doctor knew that the Toclafane were time lords it would hurt him to realise that this is what his race has become, dominating merciless killers. It should also be noticed that the Toclafane constantly talk to the master about "the darkness" possibly suggesting that the time lords are currently in limbo and the darkness is the afterlife which noted from torchwood in the very first episode we find out there is nothing after death, only darkness.

2. As mentioned above, the fact that the Toclafane's true identity would break the doctor's heart can mean either they are time lords or they are a new villain that was believed by the doctor to be extinct (like the racnoss) or they are an old villain reborn. The possibility of these creatures being daleks from an alternate dimension like the new generation cybermen which would explain the similarities of being equipped with lasers and the essence of creatures contained in metal casing but also the "parralel" differences such as they have normal voices and that their design is different to the daleks we all know and love.

3. Finally, a mjor part to all of this is the paradox machine. this caused a rift to open above the valient releaseing millions of the Toclafane. the rift could either be an opening to the afterlife supporting my time lord theory or an opening into the void which would open a whole range of theories such as the return of daleks (although i personally hope this isnt true) or an incarnation of a new villain which obviously we wont know but the doctor will know from past experience.

Well tahts what i think anyway. Either way this will be one hell of a finale =D

Posted by Robbodopolis at June 24, 2007 1:56 PM

I think that whole Afterlife thing is highly plausable, but "would break both your hearts" could refer to them being new Daleks, with him working so hard to get rid of them...

Posted by Jack at June 24, 2007 3:15 PM

Hi i dont do forums that often but there are a few points ive always wanted to bounce off people. and having just seen the sound of drums i feel this is the time.

Firstly id like to address the return of the master. he states that the timelords resurrected him to fight in the time war. many fans speculate that he was completely destroyed when he was sucked into the ey of harmony. but if anyone has no life like me and has seen all of the "classic" series they know that the eye of harmony in the tardis is merely a copy linked to the true eye of harmony located near gallifrey. and the eye of harmny is in turn connected to the matrix of the citadel. Of course the master has existed in the matrix quite comfortably (trial of a timelord).
of course if the timelords extracted him and many other long gone timelords to fight in the time war they would have armed them with new regenerations. i believe the chameleon arch to be a tool from the war also. every soldier would carry an identical trouble and if they were in danger of capture they could conceal themselves and wouldn't be able to give away secrets even if they wanted to because they wouldn't remember.

I believe the theory of the toclafane being what is left of the timelords quite acceptable. it would truly break both of the doctors hearts to find out that there was a way to get his people back all along but it was the master who came up with it and saved them. this shock coupled with the obvious insanity of what his people have become would surely be a pain we can barely imagine.

i think perhaps that the "toclafane" did come from the afterlife and the darkness rather than the alternate dimension. would be silly to open up a rift to there again because everyone would be expecting to see rose again.

the doctor states when questioned by the master about the time war "i was the only one who could end it" or something to that effect. this may mean that he had to make a terrible decision to destroy both races in an attempt to save the universe.

it may be nothing but my final point is about the disc the master was so careful to take with him when he left. the disc that held the location to utopia.

anyway thats all i have to say on that matter. thank you.

Posted by Ciaran at June 24, 2007 4:20 PM

My guess is the Toclafane are future humans, basically what happened to the human race after they reached Utopia from the last episode.

The big hint is in the middle of the "Sound of Drums" episode, when the Master is watching teletubbies. The Toclafane begs him to save them from the "neverending darkness" and "the terrible cold" -- i.e. the end of the universe. They're connected to Utopia, and what the Utopia project was all about.

It would break the doctor's hearts, as the Master said, because the doctor sent the people to their fate in "Utopia."

The Tardis ripped a hole in time to let them escape to earth. (Remember the master getting the disk in "Utopia," then sarcastically saying the destination's name?)

My bet is they're a future generation of the humans we saw in Utopia, somehow physically altered to live inside the flying balls as a way of surviving at the end of time(sort of like the Daleks living inside their shells) . The childlike voices -- although some sounded adult -- may be because they are the children of the last true humans?

This is all guesswork, of course, but I doubt they're cybermen because they have too much emotion in their voices.

Posted by MrWilli at June 24, 2007 4:58 PM

I think that the statement "My dear doctor, if i told you that it would break both your hearts" could refer to the fact the TARDIS was cannibalised, that the Toclafane are created from the TARDIS. I also feel that they couldcontain the esscence or souls of the Time Lords, hence the name is Gallifreyan fairytale. I also think that there is morre to Martha than meets the eye, She knew where she was going when she use Jacks time travel device. I honestly cant see the master working with Caan or the cybermen he wants to be "the Master of Earth", I doubt that he would trust another party such as the daleks to help him in this as they wwill kill him when he ceases to be usefull i.e. when he they have control of Earth. I defo think that the Toclafane are something to do with Time lords.

Posted by james peacock at June 24, 2007 5:39 PM

Purely speculation...

1. I feel the Toclafane are perhaps the last of the humans who were sent through the rift (did anyone mention 6 billion refugees in Utopia?). the reason, I think, it would break the Doctor's hearts is because he might be forced to destroy them to save the present 6 billion.

:::scientific speculation is that Black Holes which would probably abound in a dying universe, if one could survive the journey, would lead to another part of the universe... another time perhaps:::

By the way... if the "key" the doctor made is put around the Master's neck will the Toclafane suddenly realize what they've done? Change?

2. There's been speculation about Captain Jack. Only thing I have to say in terms of specuation on my part is to look to the second (or is it now considered to be the sixth... oh... just thought of that) part of Star Wars. You know... the Big Secret... towards the end of the movie when father and s- oops - Vader and Luke are fighting???
::::but I'm all the way here in the US so what do I know????:::

3. Oh... there's been a comment or two that the scene with the fictional president was somehow anti-American... um... I didn't think so. I didn't see it as anti-country as much as commentary on present leadership (no, I didn't vote for him either time). So...

I'm hoping there isn't a cliffhanger (loose ends okay... hate cliffhangers). But I guess we'll all see...

Thanks for all the posts. This is fun!


Posted by Laurie Campbell at June 24, 2007 7:30 PM

no, the toclafane are made of merged DNA from daleks and the doctor

Posted by the doctor at June 24, 2007 7:38 PM

Toclafane - Theories:

1) Voices sounded like The Gelth and they seemed to come through a Rift.

2) Souls of the Time Lords

Posted by Smudger at June 24, 2007 9:12 PM

some of the most pathetic guesses at future stories ive ever had the misfortune to read

Posted by paul ? at June 24, 2007 9:17 PM

i no im sad but after 3 hours of serching i found this out russel t davis sed on 1 acount that the toclfane are daleks spliced (mixed dna for u dumasses) with time lords and on wikipedia said that on an interveiw with them that the toclafane are the more expensive earlyer designs on the daleks. but im pissed of with the amount of thick people on here like clawanhex saying that in blink they couldent get near the tardes because its organic but you are thick as s**t u t**t they dont need to be organic u just dont have to be seen like the tardis dosent have eyes. i hope most would help and to all the p***ks who ar thic and dont know what the arckangel is i just want to say.........

bleaped out for agresive content just in case blocked!

Posted by joe at June 24, 2007 10:44 PM

Q. What does a TimeLords heartbeat(s) sound like?
A. The sound of drums!

Posted by The Face Of Bob at June 25, 2007 10:15 AM

I think we're looking at this Toclafane thing all wrong.

If they were the Time Lords or the Daleks, surely the Master would have known about the results of the Time War before he grilled the Doctor about it, so it seems unlikely that either of those forces would be in play.

There are six million Toclafane. There are also six million humans on planet Earth. This number seems far too close to be a coincidence.

But the humans in "our" universe are already accounted for, so where would you get six million more? Not from the past or the future, since the Doctor locked the coordinates of the TARDIS to a single point in time.

But... what about an alternate universe?

Because it just so happens the Doctor has been to one, through a rip in spacetime not unlike the one the Master created to let the Toclafane through -- and surely, in his guise as Harold Saxon, the Master has access to Torchwood 1's technology, since he's even sent Torchwood 3 off on a "wild goose chase."

It's a world which already possessed Cyberman technology, which could be easily adapted to a form like the Toclafane.

It's a world that was saved when the Doctor banished the Cybermen to the Void, which sounds very similar to "the darkness" -- and the Master was on Earth that whole time.

And it's the same world that contains the one thing that would break the Doctor's hearts if anything happened to her.

Rose Tyler.

My hypothesis: the Toclafane are the humans from the alternate Earth, converted by the Master using their own Cybertechnology, brought to the main Earth using Torchwood 1 technology, and containing even Rose herself -- as well as Jackie, Pete, and Mickey -- in their numbers.

Boy howdy, would /that/ be a Hell of a finale.

Posted by TheChisa at June 26, 2007 2:20 PM

I was just wondering; if there is a Torchwood on the alternative world where Rose is, does that mean that there's another Doctor in her world? Torchwood was set up because of the Doctor's actions in "Tooth and Claw" (episode 2, Series 2)so logically there should be a Doctor in Rose's world.There would have to be another Doctor to warrant the creation of the Torchwood Institute in the Parallel world. Just musing to myself.

Posted by Grace at June 26, 2007 7:10 PM

there is 6 billion humans not 6 million u dumb s**t

Posted by alex at June 26, 2007 9:43 PM

I just noticed someone else present this theory. Zoe Thorne did the voice for both the Gelth and one of the Toclafane. The idea of the Toclafane being Gelth is possible. In "Unquiet Dead," Gwyneth had to be a bridge so the Gelth could travel from the void to Earth. The Paradox Machine could have also provided that bridge. The rift that the Gelth travelled through with Gwyneth's help is the same rift that was in "Boom Town" and at the beginning "Utopia."

However, I don't know if the Gelth would be a heartsbreak for The Doctor. That's the only thing that makes me doubt it. ...but it is a good theory. The Toclafane sound like the Gelth because the same person is doing the voice.

I think that if the Toclafane were really the Utopia humans that would be the worst thing for the Doctor because he was responsible for them leaving for Utopia. We don't know if they ever got there. The signal could have been a trap, and the humans became part of some evil experiment turning them into Tuclafanes.

I'm also trying to figure out if the bogeyman can be a clue. The Doctor said that "Toclafane" was a made up word like "Bogeyman."

The idea of them being Daleks doesn't quite fit unless they are part of the new experiment that was attempted in 1930. Davros removed all emotions. The Toclafane seem to show limited emotions. A Dalek would not say something like "She doesn't like us" before killing someone. The Daleks also wouldn't take orders from anyone. However, if they were part of the Dalek Human experiments this may be possible. Then again, Terry Nation's estate would not allow any modifations to the original Dalek design. That's why the Daleks were never really updated like the Cybermen were. Think about how much the Cybermen changed over the years. The Daleks didn't change much. The Daleks can not be redesigned unless the estate changed its mind.

We have less than a week to find out.

One thing that bugs me about the Tuclafane's design - they look too much like Luke's training sphere in the original Star Wars movie.

Posted by Slade at June 27, 2007 4:08 AM

"There are six million Toclafane. There are also six million humans on planet Earth. This number seems far too close to be a coincidence"

There are over 9 Billion people on the Earth

Posted by Mr Saxon at June 27, 2007 1:54 PM

Wow... the heartbeats of a Time Lord... never thought of that... cool...

Dalek/Cyber hybid... interesting but I can't help but think that RTD would leave loose ends. The child among the refugees (can't think of the name... Martha met him/her... can remember if girl or boy) was named, had lines... I can't think that that would be the end of it.

Holes... Perhaps the whole thing is an alternate universe thing? Paradox machine... perhaps it hasn't happened at all? Perhaps a projection of the Master's madness? Perhaps when the Key is placed around his neck the illusion disappears???

Sorry... at work... just musing...

Tick... Tock... Tick... Tock... the weekend approaches. Can't wait!

Thanks... really enjoying this!


Posted by Laurie Campbell at June 27, 2007 4:22 PM

My first thought when The Master said "It will break both your hearts" was the Timelord idea. Maybe wanting a new home planet.

I would like to see the Daleks or Cybermen brought into it but I doubt it would happen again in the series finale. And I think we'd of heard something in the press if Billie Piper was returning in this series to do another episode but I think she's been doing something else now hasn't she?

I cant remember where I heard it but I heard Martha isnt doing another series because they dont like her on the set.

And to correct TheChisa he said "6 billion" not "6 million."

Posted by Adam at June 28, 2007 1:12 PM

Folks, the BBC made a tiny little mistake on the doctor who website by accidently revealing the picture of what's inside the toclafane!

It's basicly a splice of a dalek,
A dalek from another dimention, so to speak...

Posted by Evil Duck at June 28, 2007 10:43 PM

Yeah, obviously I meant "billion" not "million", sorry about the typo.

Posted by TheChisa at June 30, 2007 10:09 AM

John Borrowman is gay??

Posted by David Smith at June 30, 2007 11:54 AM

In the last episode of Doctor Who does Milligan take Martha to see and At what age were the children of Gallifrey taken to enter the Academy?

Posted by Doctor who master at July 1, 2007 1:36 PM

after watching last nights episode, the toclafane were indeed the humans from utopia, hence why the paradox machine was there, it allowed the paradox of future humans destroying their own ancestors to happen without the universe collapsing in on itself, hence when jack destroyed it, time reversed to the moment that the paradox was created (ie, when the toclafane came through the rift from the future "utopia")

the doctor also used the year gap between episodes to integrate himself into the psychic archangel network that was used to brainwash people and stuff and convince them harold saxon was amazing. after this, martha went round earth telling people to think of the word DOCTOR all at a precise time, so when the psychic network heard it, it gave the doctor some sort of amazing strength of some sort, i didn't quite get that so any explanations would be welcome, but he became young doctor again, and captain jack put cuffs on the master who, after marthas mum threatened to shoot him, was eventually shot by his own wife, the doctor held him in his arms as he died and refused to regenerate thereby killing him absolutely or thereabouts.
(Don't forget though, at the end of the episode some randomer picked up the master's ring, i can't remember what the ring does so i will be reviewing the episodes to see if i can figure it out. this gives scope for the master to return in future)

oh, also, we found out that captain jack harkness has been growing old, the off grey hair and stuff, and then we find out that as a young 'un in the 51st century when he joined the time angency as the first time agent, he was nicknamed the face of boe. which could explain some of the yana stuff, but i dont quite get how if captain jack can never die, the face of boe died, i got confused. ooh, and also how the face of boe referred to the doctor as a lonely god or something, and in the last of the time lords he was made powerful by prayer of a sort, i thought that was neat.

there was a whole bunch of other stuff, but i've forgotten about half of it so if anyone feels like calling me an idiot then go ahead, im open to criticism, the last episodes were rather complicated and i wont remember everything accurately.

thankyou so much for an awesome forum experience =]

Posted by Alfus at July 1, 2007 5:49 PM

Erm, I made the assumption that the "randomer" who picked up the Master's ring at the end was his wife Lucy. what with the red nail polish n'stuff. She was good. I liked her. Even though she did destroy any chance of the Doctor not having to be all on his lonesome anymore. Hope we see her again. I thought they might explain more about her past. She mentioned in "The Sound of Drums" that The Master had been ever so good to her father. Thought there might have been a little bit of back story there. Just a side note: Am not at all sorry at the prospect of never seeing Martha again.

Posted by Grace at July 2, 2007 6:38 PM

SHE'S PREGNANT!!! That anagram of Mister Harold Saxon being timelord has a son! And she fainted! I think he told her to kill him if the doctor spoilt the plan!

Posted by Rowan at July 11, 2007 9:10 PM

I definitely think the Gelf are involved. Otherwise, Davies would not have bothered telling us how many Toclafane exist. Remember there were a few "billion" gelf in need of bodies? 6 billion Toclafane. 6 is a "few."

Posted by at July 18, 2007 3:52 PM

I made the same assumption as Grace, that it was Lucy who collected the ring. Didn't the ring have a design on it similar to the time lords' watches? That might explain why Lucy shot him and why he refused to regenerate - his "essence" escaped into the ring (ala the watch in"Human Nature"), leaving everyone to think him dead.

Posted by Michael at July 21, 2007 12:55 AM

Having seen "The Unquiet Dead" recently, I really don't think that the Gelth had any connection with the Toclafane. There was only mention of there being a few million Gelth. Big difference between a few million and 6 billion - being the number of Toclafane. I don't doubt that the same woman who did the voice of the Gelth did one of the voices of the Toclafane. I think that that may be the only connection between the two.

Posted by Grace at July 26, 2007 6:27 PM

one thing i don't get... after time reverses the doctor says they're back, after the president was assassinated but before the utopian spheres appeared... but the president was assassinated BY the utopians. so wtf?

i r confused. hlp pls

Posted by herecomethedrumsherecomethedrums at September 23, 2007 5:08 AM
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